Pandemic Papers: An interview with Sami Ellougani (Class of 2018)

We’ll start with a fun fact about Sami Ellougani: His last name is still misspelled in the contacts on my phone! Why? Well, first and foremost, I’m too lazy to change it. Sami would be HAPPY to reiterate that point! But mostly, it’s because at the time we first talked on the phone, he was a low-level recruit who I was thoroughly convinced was not going to be admitted to Marist … so I figured, why bother? Sami rehashes this in great detail below, and it’s all true! Admission gave me a ‘pre-read’ on him that was not positive. At all. He was a decent but unspectacular middle-distance recruit who was clearly motivated to be a strong computer science major. We would have been a great fit for him … except he wasn’t getting in! So, I told him – repeatedly, apparently – to look elsewhere, at some other fine CS schools where he could also be on their track team. Miraculously, to my surprise, he got into Marist, and he had a great four years here. Funny, how life works out like that sometimes. Athletically, he was injured a lot of the time, and he wasn’t as bad as he noted below – a quick search of his results and I found some pretty good races when he wasn’t packing big bags of ice on various parts of his legs! Regardless? He proved to be an amazing teammate and team member, adding quite a bit to our program – if not totally on the track. Basically, he embodied what we are about (for proof, see the picture above where he gets his teammates fired up before the start of a cross country race). Academically, he excelled and thrived, and he is on the cusp of getting a master’s degree in CS from Georgia Tech, one of the best schools in the country for that discipline. Not bad for a barely B-minus student from Ramsey, NJ, who spent more time playing video games growing up than he probably should have. Speaking of Ramsey: His high school coach, John Kirchhof, and I used to work together at Beginning Trails Running Camp (Hill Busters!), owned and operated by my former college coach Steve Lurie back in the 1980s. Sami references Kirch here and that connection is pretty neat.

 

Another fun Sami fact: He’s got a dog, and she’s ugly. Wow! That’s harsh … and not entirely true, but it sure got your attention, didn’t it? But he does have a dog, and the start of their relationship – in San Antonio, of all places – was definitely rocky. Sami has proven to be a great dog owner. The term “rescue” really applies here. Luna was a lost canine soul and Sami turned her around, and now they are apparently inseparable. An entire question – and thoroughly long response – about Luna follows in this way-too-long Pandemic Papers interview with Sami (Class of 2018). Sami’s answers read just like he talks – entertaining, self-effacing, genuine and with swear words, some of which I edited but most of which remain here. Sami has a high self-awareness, and he talks about his mental health struggles with great honesty here, something he did during his time at Marist as well. We spent many hours talking things through one-on-one, and we became close as a result. During the pandemic, we did a few Skype calls, which were comical mostly due to terrible internet connections on one or both ends, along with insults and sarcasm flying both ways while the screens would randomly freeze. This is what passed as Good Fun in 2020. As we enter 2021 with hope for more face-to-face meetings and fewer “you’re on mute” moments, we’ll continue this interview series – and start the New Year -- with my boy Sami. I hope you enjoy it as much as he clearly enjoyed writing his responses. Thank you.

 

Take us back to the beginning. How, when and why did you start running?

This is actually a pretty funny story. So, before XC/Track, I never participated in a sport in my entire life. One time, in the 7th grade, I tried out for my town’s (Ramsey, NJ) soccer league, and ended up doing pretty well in the tryouts. My dad, a former semi-professional soccer player, was absolutely ecstatic when I took upon this opportunity. Unfortunately, a week or so later, I ended up breaking my elbow by tripping on my shoelace. I know, I know, DUMBASS!  Due to that, my potential soccer career that year was over. What a shame. You’re probably wondering why I didn’t just try out again the following year. I was a super quiet/insecure kid back then, so it took me a lot of courage to even go and try out for a sport. At that time, I think I had maybe three friends that I OCCASIONALLY saw after school. I didn’t want to have to go through that experience of putting myself out there like that again. So, instead of playing sports, I spent all that time doing what my 13-year-old self loved doing, which was playing video games baby! I became so addicted that my mom made a rule that I can only play video games from Friday to Sunday. Every Friday I would do the same thing. I would get home from school (or wake up if I was on break), eat something, go to my basement, boot up my Xbox 360 or PC, and sit there for hours on end. I think I had about five months of game time spent playing World of Warcraft. In college, my boy/teammate Joe Miller and I would always talk about how addicted we were back in the day.

 

One day, during the summer before my freshman year of high school, I was playing Xbox online with a kid named John Strollo from my town. We didn’t really know much of each other, besides the fact that we both went to the same school, and clearly enjoyed playing the same video games. That day, we spent a lot of our time talking about how high school was about to start, and how life changing the experience was going to be. John then asked me, “are you going to join any clubs or anything?” I responded with a very simple answer, NOPE! He then responded saying he was going to join the high school cross country team. I vividly remember saying “WTF is cross country?” I kid you not, this is what John said to me next. John said, “I’m not entirely sure, but you do a couple laps on the track after school, you race here and there on some grass, there’s no tryouts, and it seems like a cool way to make friends … you want to do it with me?” To this day I don’t know what came of me, but with zero hesitation I responded, sure. Here I am, almost 11 years later writing about it. Funny enough, John and I ended up becoming lifelong friends/training partners. To this day we still laugh about how little we knew of the sport, and how silly of a conversation it was. Sure happy we had it though.

 

You ran for a legendary coach (Kirch) at Ramsey. Tell us about that experience and about the highlights you had as a high school runner.

Oh boy, oh boy, good ol Kirch baby! Kirch is easily one of the most influential people in my life so far. He built so much character for me growing up, that if it wasn’t for him, I would not be the man that I am today. When I first started out running in high school, I was god awful. Notice how I used the word awful. Not something soft like bad or kinda sucky. AWFUL. I would stop to walk during 2 mile runs, I would stop in the middle of freshman XC races to catch a breath. Man, I would even be struggling to catch a breath during our 2 lap WARM UP before our main run. It was quite the sight to see. As comical as that sounds, I really mean it when I say that everyday truly felt like an embarrassment. Finishing races so behind that there weren’t many people watching anymore, the occasional jokes towards you in the locker room, going home in tears from time to time...it was a brutal time man. I truly learned what pain was both on a physical and emotional level. However, I never threw in the towel, and the biggest reason was because of him. The best part about Kirch was that he cared the same amount for everyone, regardless of where you stood on the totem pole. Even though I was awful, he believed in me, and continuously motivated me. Eventually, I started building goals for myself, and they just grew in size as time went on. What started as finishing your first training run, then became finishing a race, then became bumping up to the 5k, then became trying to be top 7 on JV, then became shooting for a varsity spot, then became trying to be captain, then became breaking a school record, and then became going to a D1 college. To this day, Kirch and I are still great friends. Love that man.

 

The recruiting process for you was ... let's just say ... interesting. What do you remember about the process, visiting Marist, meeting with me, etc., and what made you choose Marist over the other schools on your list?

HA! Ok, yea, this is gonna be a good one too. So, I never actually did an official visit at Marist. I did an unofficial one where I got lunch with the team, and talked to Pete with both of my parents. At the time, I had this huge afro on my head, and Pete had a beard so long that he looked like Santa Claus. We both lost our hair as the years went on, thankfully. My mom loved Pete because she thought he was super honest. Sure, goddamn is. Almost TOO honest if you ask me! My dad didn’t really have much of an opinion of Pete, but that’s just how he is. Here’s the funny part though. Pete told me multiple times that I was NOT going to get accepted to Marist, and that I should be putting my interest elsewhere. I told you, he’s way too honest!!! His reasoning was valid though, as I was a pretty terrible student in high school (I rocked a smooth 2.7 GPA). However, lo and behold, one day I checked my mail to see a big letter from Marist, and inside was the classic “YES” acceptance folder. To this day, I genuinely think they just f’d up and I was some sort of fluke. I remember telling Pete later that day, and the first thing this clown says is “Wait...SERIOUSLY?!” Yes Pete, seriously, jerk. My other options for schools were tech schools, specifically Rochester Institute of Technology, and New Jersey Institute of Technology. I could have run at both, so that wasn’t much of an issue. The reasoning as to why I chose Marist was because I wanted to be in a more well-rounded environment, not just surrounded by geeks like me. I don’t think I would have gelled well at any of those schools for my undergrad, so I’m happy that I stuck with Marist.

 

You were a computer science major at Marist and seemed to really ENJOY that curriculum. What are some of your favorite courses/professors from your time here, and how did it set you up for your future?

I loved being a Computer Science major at Marist! I knew I was never cut out to be a business major when I found out that you have a class where it is mandatory to wear suits??? Yea, HELL NO. I’ll leave that to Steve Morrison. Due to Marist being a liberal arts school, it caused the CS department to be a relatively small community. I enjoyed this because I found it much easier to meet other students, and create long-lasting relationships with my professors. My favorite professor was Alan Labouseur. He was such a cool dude who really challenged the students with these semester long projects that were AMAZING to throw on a resume. Also, excuse my language, but he didn’t give a shit about upsetting students with giving them an F. His courses were notorious for weeding out the students who were just bullshitting their way through the program, and I respected him for that. He gave assignments that had requirements, and if you met them, you got an A. If you didn’t, you failed. No gimmicks, no nonsense, you failed. I enjoyed that because it held people ACCOUNTABLE.  I think that professors get nervous when it comes time to handing out poor grades to people they may like. He could like you all you want, but if you’re not putting up good code, then kiss that “A” goodbye! My experience being a CS major at Marist was so positive, that it made me want to pursue a master’s degree in CS. I am currently doing an online master’s in CS through Georgia Institute of Technology, one of the best CS schools in the world. Yea, I don’t know how that happened either, but I’ll be graduating at the end of 2021, hopefully!

 

You were able to do a pretty neat internship that led to your first job out of college (in San Antonio!) tell us about that experience and your fondest memories of your time down there!

You know, sometimes I look back at that point in my life, and the first thing I say is “WTF was THAT?” In all seriousness though, the year I moved to San Antonio was an extremely pivotal moment in my life. Yea, I learned some cool things from the job, but the most important thing that I learned was how much of an absolute CHILD I was. In college, I used to literally wash my clothes, dry them, and then leave them on the floor of my bedroom to never be folded. Like … what??? Why did y’all (referring to my friends reading this) allow this kind of behavior?! If you want a crash course on how to be an adult, move to an unknown area super far from home, where you know less than three people. To add some more fuel to the fire, I lived alone too, so I didn’t have a roommate to lean on either. This truly broke me out of my comfort zone, and I learned so much about myself as well. My favorite memories from down there was adopting my dog, going to Austin from time to time (that place PARTIES, man), paying low rent, renting a house off of Canyon Lake, eating the best tacos in the world, going for walks on the Riverwalk, going floating, and only having to pay 2 dollars for beer at a relatively popular bar. Yep, 2 dollars. Every first Friday of the month in San Antonio, they would do a themed citywide bar crawl. That was a LOT of fun too. I miss it all.

 

You were a valued member of our team and a team captain your senior year. Although your running career at Marist was marred with injury, I'm sure you have many positive memories and highlights of your time as a student-athlete. What were some of them?

I have so many positive memories from my time at Marist, that I simply would not be able to put them in one paragraph. My favorite memory, as selfish as it is, was the moment I was named captain my senior year. The reasoning for this is pretty simple. I sucked as a runner at Marist. I got hurt all the time (tore both hamstrings, and my groin). I finished only a handful of races, and the ones that I finished were pretty heartbreaking to watch. I felt like I was in a relationship where I continuously got dumped, but also went back to. Most days felt like a struggle emotionally and physically. What I kept telling myself was, if I could make it out of the mud like I did in high school, then I can do the same in college. I learned a truly valuable lesson from this, and that lesson was every moment in life won’t have a Hallmark movie ending. Not everything will go as planned. Not everything will go in your favor. However, even though I provided literally nothing for the team in terms of points, I still somehow received a lot of votes from my peers when it came time to choose a captain. Later on, I even got a final push for the spot from my MD boys (Tanner, Drew, and Henderson). It showed me that my teammates took note of how hard I was trying, and how much I truly cared. It made me proud and humbled to know that my teammates truly believed that I encapsulated everything it meant to be a Red Fox. It also made me happy to know that I had some of the best teammates on the planet that I wouldn’t give up for anything else. I smiled really hard that day, I even am a little bit as I am typing this.

 

OK, ok ... tell us about your DOG.

LUNA. Ugh, such a beautiful doggo. So, when I first moved out to Texas, I lived by myself which naturally made me very lonely. I always knew that at some point in my life I wanted to have a dog, because my parents refused to get me one when I was growing up. So, I told myself that in 2019, I was going to adopt a dog. I applied for a few dogs, and I got rejected by all of them due to my work schedule. I was pretty bummed, and soon became a little hopeless when it came to the dog search. Then, one day, the foster sent me a link to Luna’s adoption page. I’m going to be completely honest, she looked absolutely terrible in her photo. She literally looked like she came right out of a laundry machine. Even though I was a little hesitant, I still said sure to go meet up with her. On the drive to the foster’s home, I was shaking in fear, questioning myself internally. Do I want this? Am I capable of owning a dog? What if she’s a terrible dog? I eventually get there, I open the door, and Luna (named Lady at the time) sprints away from me. Love at first sight, am I right? She was, and still is a bit, a super anxious dog. To top it off, she absolutely hated men too. I remember the foster holding her away from me because she thought she was going to bite me. At this point, the foster is pretty much telling me it’s OK for me to say no to adopting her, and how a couple people took her and gave her back already (how sad). Luna was also in pretty rough shape too. She had a baseball sized fatty lump on her thigh that needed to be removed, she was 5 pounds overweight (that’s a lot for a small sized dog), clearly ungroomed, and she also needed a deep cleaning on her teeth. The lady kept going on about how it’ll be OK for me to say no, and before she even finished her explanation, I said “I’ll take her.” The lady asked me like 10 times if I was sure, because she was in such shock with my answer. Repeatedly I said, “yup.” Fast forward almost two years, I have grown four more legs. I have my legs, and the four that follow me everywhere (hers if you don’t get the joke). I got her lump removed, cleaned her teeth, took her on runs to help her lose the weight, brought her around other dogs/people to help her with her social anxiety, and all in all just did everything I could to make her a much happier dog. I attached a before and after shot for -- y’all to see yourself.

 

Many of your former teammates and friends lost out on the end of their senior seasons, and some current student-athletes are having a rough senior year currently. What message can you send to them?

Still having some remaining connections to the team, I felt pretty upset when I heard that a lot of these seniors are losing some of their last moments with collegiate running. If there is anything that I learned about life these past couple of years, it is that life will always bring unexpected twists and turns. Just like I said earlier, not everything will have a Hallmark movie ending. However, your character is defined by how you handle times of uncertainty and despair. Does that mean I’m going to tell these adults how to spend their time when it seems like all else is lost? Absolutely not. At the end of the day, I don’t KNOW what they’re going through, and I’m selfishly glad that’s the case. What I will say is this though. Being a running Red Fox, we have always been at a disadvantage. We don’t have a track. Just until recently we had a strength/fitness coach pay attention to us. Hell, I can’t tell you how jealous I am to see that these runners finally have their own meetup space, and no longer have to meet in the racquetball court. Our motto has, and always will be, Be Better, no matter the cost. Regardless of receiving good or bad news, the response as a running Red Fox is always the same. You lace up, and you put in the work. Period. Take that how you wish.

 

If you could have a conversation with the 18-year-old Sami, what would you tell him and what advice would you give him as he prepared to enter Marist?

This is honestly such a tough question because I believe that a lot of the failures/mistakes throughout my time at Marist formed me into something I’m relatively proud of. There are some things I wish I did differently though:

1. Cut your hair, you’re probably already going to do it, but do it sooner.

2. Stop comparing yourself to others. Focus on the day-to-day process with yourself, and you’ll thank me in the long run. Otherwise, you’ll end up running yourself into injury constantly trying to play a toxic game of catch-up. Just do you.

3. Stop living in the past/future, be more present. These are moments that you’re never going to get back in your life, so enjoy it while it lasts.

4. Go see the mental health counselors at school, and actually stick with it. You do have things you want to discuss, you’re just too engulfed with life around you to even think about it. It will catch up with you one day.

5. Just because you have the freedom to go out some weekends, doesn’t mean you should. Take some time every now and then just to relax. You’ll remember the nights that you spent talking crap in the caf with the boys more than you will at a night out.

6. Invite your parents to meets, they won’t ever feel ashamed of you. They just want to see you do what you enjoy.

7. That being said, call your mom every once in a while, asshole.

8. If you’re thinking about showing up to the caf wearing pajamas and a sleeveless shirt, do it. A girl onthe team named Mariah Christian will be embarrassed, and it will be funny each time.

9. Last but not least, CLEAN UP YOUR ROOM.

 

How has the pandemic affected your personal and professional life and where do you see things going over the coming weeks and months?

I have thankfully been very lucky during these unprecedented times. My family and I have had great health so far, which I am very grateful for. Also, things with my job have been great as well. I work for a cybersecurity startup, and oddly enough, this has been one of the best years for us in terms of revenue. Cybersecurity is like renter’s insurance. You don’t need it, until you need it. People need to feel a sense of security (no pun intended) now, so more clients have been buying our product! In terms of how this affected my personal life, I definitely feel as if I have changed a lot. I finally gathered up the courage to go to therapy, which has been an incredible experience for me. I feel as if I have a better grasp of who I am, and also understand my relationships with people more now as well. Where do I see things going? Hell, I don’t know. Like I said, I like to plan my life about one year at a time. I have been manifesting a lot of positive energy going into 2021. I want to graduate from my master’s program, I want to start reading more, I want to increase my physical fitness, I want to look into starting my own tech company, I want to start volunteering more, I want to become a larger mental health advocate, I want to … the list goes on and on. I’ll do everything in my power to make sure I accomplish my goals … but all in all, I can say this for a lot of people too, I want this shit to be over.

 

You've gotten into boxing since you graduated. How the hell did THAT happen?

So remember when I said XC/Track was my first sport? That was a half lie. I used to participate in Tae Kwon Do up until high school, when I eventually joined the XC team. Do I consider Tae Kwon Do a sport? Not really (not to throw a dig at any Tae Kwon Do fanatics out there). That martial art is primarily about discipline. What I’m trying to say here was that I was always into martial arts growing up. So, when I graduated college, I wanted to get back into it. However, I didn’t want to do Tae Kwon Do, I wanted something that was going to push me more physically. I decided to join a boxing gym when I lived in San Antonio, and I really enjoyed it! At the time, I was only participating in what are called “boxercise” classes, which is essentially just getting in shape by hitting a bag. Looking back though, that was a horrible gym, with a horrible trainer. The guy had people of varying weight classes/experience levels sparring each other, uncontrolled, after only a month or so of “training.” If you know anything about boxing, that is extremely frowned upon within the community. Eventually, I moved back to NYC from San Antonio, and I told myself that I was going to get back into it again. I was super excited because NYC has some of the best boxing gyms on the planet. Sadly, the pandemic hit, all gyms were closed, and that goal ended up dying off. One day during May, I was walking Luna by Central Park, and I saw this guy doing pad work with some other person. For whatever reason, the first thing I thought was “this is probably some scam, or some boxercise nonsense like the last time.” Couple weeks go by, and I still see the same guy doing pad work at the same spot on a daily basis. Eventually, I say screw it, and go up to him to ask for his card. His name was Joey Gamache. After ONE google search, my jaw dropped. Joe is a two-weight world champion, and the only world champion to ever come out of Maine. He also trains Otto Wallin, a heavyweight fighter who fought the notorious Tyson Fury, along with training Teofimo Lopez, the unified world lightweight champion. To think I just met this guy by going for a walk at the park. I started working with him and his assistant, Arturo. They’re both super nice guys, and they got me into enjoying the sport. Do I think I’ll compete at an amateur level? Maybe. It would require the same amount of dedication as it was being a runner at Marist. Also, CTE is a thing, and I still need a head on my shoulders to maintain a job. Either way, it’s fun, I stay in shape, and I have met some pretty cool people.

 

Anything else you'd like to add …

Just would like to say thanks for interviewing me, I hope I provided some entertainment for you, and the readers going through this. I’m not the best writer on the planet, so sorry if my grammar was not top notch. I hope everyone stays safe, and remains vigilant through these times. We are currently in the “beginning of the end." Only a matter of time until we can all move past this. If anyone needs someone to talk to during these times, feel free to shoot me an email at sami.ellougani1@gmail.com. Have a happy new year y’all!!!!