Friday, May 1, 2020

An interview with Kevin O'Sullivan


With some student-athletes, you just know. You get the sense, very early in their college careers, that they are mature beyond their years, that they will do great things in their future. Such was the case with today’s Pandemic Papers interviewee, Kevin O’Sullivan. As he noted in the answer to the first question, Kevin could have attended some pretty high-end schools in terms of admissibility competitiveness, history and name recognition. But Kevin wanted to run, and Marist College provided him the clearest path for that. Although Kevin’s running career at Marist never reached the heights we both had hoped, to say Kevin was a “good citizen” of the program would be an understatement. Loyal, hard-working, studious, serious about his career aspirations – Kevin was everything you’d want in a teammate, and an athlete, and more.

Kevin knew he wanted to get into law and he has long had a passion for being a public defender. Here’s a sentence from this Pandemic Papers interview that gives you a sense of the type of quality human being Kevin O’Sullivan truly is: “Public defense work also meshes well with my faith in that it emphasizes grace, forgiveness, and equality.” Beautiful. The world needs more Kevin O’Sullivans. Now more than ever. We are honored that Kevin was a part of OUR world in Marist Running, and we appreciate his taking part in this Pandemic Papers series today.

Refresh my memory. How did you wind up at Marist? How was the recruiting process? What other schools were you considering and what made you choose Marist over the others?

I first learned about Marist early in the summer going into my senior year of high school. I just had started getting into running that year, and wanted to try to keep running in college.  But my 2-mile PR at the time was only around 10:00, so there weren’t a whole lot of schools that would guarantee me a spot on the team.  I spent a lot of time researching trying to find different schools that I thought could possibly be a good fit, and one day while on the Dyestat message boards I read some posts about how Marist was known for having a strong distance program and gave a lot of guys a chance to be on the roster.  So not long after that I sent an email to Pete with my PRs at the time and expressing an interest in possibly joining the team, and got a quick response back saying that I would be welcome on the team, which was a lot more enthusiastic than most of the responses I was getting from coaches.  I continued learn more about Marist, and I think also came across Pete’s blog at that time, which gave me a lot more information about the program.  I decided to visit the campus with my parents in early August of that year.  We took a campus tour and then met with Pete afterwards.  I really liked the campus and was impressed that Pete took the time out of his day to meet with my parents and I, and answer all our questions. I then did an official visit at Marist in early December, which gave me a chance to interact with the team members and get a better sense of what it would be like to go to Marist.  I really enjoyed that visit, and came away from it thinking that Marist would likely be my #1 choice.

The other schools I considered were Davidson, Colgate, and William and Mary.  I ultimately decided to choose Marist over them because I enjoyed interacting with Pete more than the coaches at any of the other schools, and felt like I would have the best chance to be successful at Marist.

Talk about your time as a student at Marist. You were a high achieving student. What was your major and how did it impact your career path?

I majored in Psychology and minored in Spanish and Criminal Justice.  My two minors probably impacted my career path more than my actual major, as the criminal justice courses I took are clearly relevant to my current work as a public defender, and I have a number of clients that speak only Spanish who I am able to communicate with in part because of the improvements I made in my Spanish speaking ability while studying at Marist. 

What resources did you use here to help to better your future?

In terms of internships, my major required that I do two semesters worth of internships in order to graduate.  I did both of my required internships at the Dutchess County Public Defenders Office in the spring semester of my junior year and the fall semester of my senior year.  For that internship, my main task was to conduct initial client intake interviews.  The Psychology Department required that the two internships by at two different locations, but that point I had already decided that I wanted to be a public defender after interning at the Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia the summer before my junior year, so fortunately, the professor in charge of the internship credit made an exception to allow me to work at the public defender’s office both semesters. 

Aside from internships, I remember meeting with Pre-Law Advisor at Marist at the beginning of my sophomore year about the possibility of attending law school after graduation, and received some helpful advice. I also pretty close with some of my professors, particularly Kevin Gaugler and Julie Raines, who I got career advice from.

Talk about your time as an athlete here. You were one of our most hard-working runners but also had injury issues. How did you train, how did you manage your injuries and what were some of your biggest highlights as an athlete here?

Going into college, I really wanted to see how good of a runner I could become, and thought that the only real way to do that would be to run a lot of mileage.  So, I tried to constantly push the envelope in terms of running high mileage, while also trying to do the little things that I thought would help me recover and be able to handle the high workload.  In hindsight, though, I probably could have been a little more consistent with doing the extra stuff or taken a more measured approach to training.  I was never able to really train at a high level for a long enough period of time to see it translate to races before being interrupted by injuries.  I had a few different injuries in college, but I think the main issue is something that’s wrong with my right hip.  I went to a lot of different physical therapists and doctors in college, but unfortunately, I was never able to get to the bottom of what was actually wrong with the hip, and that impacted my ability to accomplish the running goals I set at the start of college.

In terms of highlights, I would say I really just enjoyed hanging out with my teammates in practice each day and traveling to meets with them. One meet that was really cool for me to watch was the Northeast Regional Cross Country Championships my freshman year where the men’s team finished 10th, which was a big highlight for the program. It was great to see that happen in person and be there to feel all the excitement and energy from everyone associated with the team that day.  In terms of individual highlights, it’s tough to point to any specific race since I feel like some of my workouts were often better than any actual race I ran.  I do think though that the struggles I had with running in college taught me the really valuable lesson of how to deal with adversity and keep going in the face of challenges, which is something that has proven valuable in my current work.  So, I guess I would also consider having the opportunity to learn that through running in college to be a highlight as well.

Discuss your career path -- what have you done since you graduated Marist, both in terms of law school and your subsequent jobs?

After I graduated from Marist in 2014, I worked full-time as an investigator with the DC Public Defender Service, where I had previously worked as an intern investigator in the summers of 2012 and 2013.  I stayed there for about a year and a half, which I thought helped prepare me to law school.  I then attended NYU Law School, and graduated in 2018.  I decided to go to NYU because I had heard from attorneys I worked with in DC that it’s the best law school for preparing future public defenders, which I found to be true.  During law school, I immersed myself in clinics and internships that focused on criminal defense, and got some experience doing immigrant rights work. I spent my two summers in law school interning with offices in Arizona and Colorado, and had really great experiences with both of them.  After graduating law school, I accepted a job with the Orleans Public Defenders in New Orleans.  I stayed there for about a year, and represented clients charged with misdemeanor offenses and low-level felonies.  By the time I left, I had about 150 active cases at any one time, which was a lot to keep up with.  Overall, I had a pretty good experience in New Orleans and really enjoyed working with all my colleagues, but I started to miss the east coast and became frustrated with some of the systemic inequities in New Orleans.

What is your current position, current duties and how long have you been there?

I’m currently working as a staff attorney in the trial division at the DC Public Defender Service, where I started as intern investigator around eight years ago now.  So, it’s been pretty cool to come full-circle and work here as an attorney now.  I’ve been here since November 2019.  After completing the training program, all first-year attorneys here start out by representing juveniles charged with serious delinquency offenses in Family Court before moving up to handle adult felonies.  So right now, I have a caseload of seven pre-trial cases, which is a lot less than the number of cases I had in New Orleans.  In DC, private attorneys that are paid by the court actually represent the vast majority of people charged with crimes that can’t afford their own attorney.  The public defender’s office only represents clients charged with the most serious offenses in the District, which gives us more time to spend working on each individual case.  In terms of typical duties, my days are usually split between being in court, meeting with clients at detention centers and shelter homes, going out in the community to talk with witnesses, and reviewing case-file materials and preparing for trials at the office.

You have always had a passion for public defending, which is difficult and unsung hero type work in the law profession. What drew you to that?

I actually never thought at all about being a public defender before the start of my sophomore year of college.  Going into college, I wanted to become an FBI agent or something similar.  So, I remember I had thought about law school since that’s one of the routes people can take to get into the FBI.  But as I was going into my sophomore year at Marist, I realized it didn’t really make sense to go to law school just to try to get into the FBI and that I should look at some different types of careers in law, in case the FBI thing didn’t work out.  I was immediately attracted by what I read about public defense work.  I actually think competitive running was what first attracted me to public defense work, at least in part.  Similar to public defense work, long-distance running is something that is difficult, isn’t all that popular compared to other sports, and kind of requires a grind it out/underdog type mentality.  And then after spending my first summer in DC working with amazing attorneys and getting to know the clients on a personal level, I was convinced that I wanted to be a public defender.  Public defense work also meshes well with my faith in that it emphasizes grace, forgiveness, and equality.  We’re often the only ones in the courtroom reminding everyone else that the client is more than what the police report may say.  And in a lot of places in the country, there’s still a wide gap between the quality of representation that poor people get versus what rich people can buy.  I like surprising clients who might come in with the very understandable belief that anything you get for free can’t be very good.  Ultimately, my goal is that all of my clients feel like they were O.J. Simpson or Aaron Hernandez, and couldn’t get better representation with all the money in the world.  And here in DC, we have the training, resources, and caseload controls to really provide top-notch representation to every client, which is kind of special.

How are you and your family managing the Coronavirus situation? Are you able to work remotely? How are your parents doing?

We’ve been managing it OK, everyone is healthy and we’ve been able to work remotely, so that’s good.  I was back home in Virginia Beach for the last couple weeks, but just got back to DC to do some prep for a trial I have set for May 21st.  So I’ll have to do some work at the office for that.

How has your post-collegiate running gone and what are you currently doing in that area?

Similar to how my running went in college, there have been a few periods where I’ve been able to train at a pretty high level post-collegiately and have run some good workouts, but unfortunately, I haven’t been able to sustain those periods.  I had an arthroscopic surgery in October 2014 to repair a torn labrum in my hip, but my hip still seems to bother me when try to train at a higher volume or higher intensity for a long period of time.  I’m still able to run about 40-45 miles every week, consisting of almost all easy running.  It’s been two years now though since I’ve run a race or done consistent interval workouts.  I’m hopeful that maybe someday I can find out what’s causing the issue in my hip, and maybe get back to being a somewhat competitive runner.

Have you stayed in touch with your fellow Running Red Fox alums?

Not quite as much as I’d like to these last two years.  The work has been pretty all-consuming, and it was stressful having to study for two different bar exams (Louisiana and DC) in the last two years.  But through Facebook and text messages, I’ve been able to see and hear what people have been up to, and I hope to get to see folks in person more once things get back to normal.

How long do you envision this Coronavirus pandemic affecting our lives and how do you envision it impacting what you do?

I haven’t been following the news all that closely, but from what I’ve heard, it seems like it’s something that could be affecting our lives for quite a while, at least to some extent.  I certainly hope that’s wrong though.

In terms of how it’s impacting my work, to start, court has been closed since mid-March.  Initial appearances have been happening electronically, but no other hearings or trials are happening.  Court is currently scheduled to re-open in early May, but I think that will likely get pushed back.  Once court does re-open, there will likely be a backlog of cases and things will move slower because no cases have been able to reach a disposition for the last two months.  This will also probably interfere with clients’ right to a speedy trial.  For example, juveniles held in secure detention pending trial have a statutory right to a trial within 30 days of the initial appearance.  I picked up a case last week that’s in this posture with trial set on May 21st.  But I suspect that this statutory guarantee will become temporarily meaningless and the trial will get pushed back, resulting in more time spent in secure detention for a client who is still presumed innocent.  Aside from the court closure, the pandemic is affecting the work I would normally be doing in the community on cases.  For example, no one at my office has been allowed to visit clients at the juvenile detention center or the jail because there are a significant number of COVID-19 cases at those places.  Finally, because the defense isn’t entitled to take depositions of the prosecution’s witnesses, we have to attempt to interview these witnesses before trial by showing up at their houses.  But obviously that’s been put on hold for the last couple months because people are not likely to open their doors to us given the current pandemic.

What message can you give to our current seniors who have lost their final outdoor track season (including Colonial Relays, where your parents always pay us a visit!) and their final few months of senior year?

I feel really bad for all the current senior years who lost their final outdoor track season.  I can only imagine how disappointing that must be.  But at least with running, unlike some other sports, you can still continue to train and compete at a high-level after college.  So, I would tell the current seniors to continue to chase after any goals that may have remained unfulfilled because of the pandemic.  I would also say to remember all the good times they’ve had at Marist, stay in touch with friends, teammates, and coaches; and try to do things together to make up for the lost time once things get back to normal.

Anything else you'd like to add ...

--Thanks for including me in this series!
--If anyone has any questions about law school or anything, feel free to email me at kevin.osullivan1991@gmail.com
--Go Foxes!

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