Pandemic Papers: An interview with Matt Walsh (Class of 2007)

 

I hadn’t heard from him in years. Hell, NOBODY (at least, in the Marist Running orbit) had heard from Matt Walsh in many, many years. He “fell off the grid,” as they say. Until I received a random text message from Walsh a few weeks ago. In it, he asked to be interviewed for the blog. My assumption, of course, was for Walsh to be included in the somewhat dormant Pandemic Papers series, but I wasn’t sure because he said he hadn’t read the blog in a year. Anyway. I don’t often “quote” text messages, and I hope Walsh doesn’t mind my doing so here, but this is what popped up on my phone, out of the blue, completely random, on Sunday, December 6, at 6:29 p.m.

Good evening. Then: I just turned my computer on for the first time in a year and once it finished loading, your blog was up on my screen. I tried to catch up, but it’s been so long that I don’t know where I even left off. I’m not sure how it works, or what the rules are, or if it’s considered bad form to make such a request rather than being sought after as a subject by you … but, I was wondering if perhaps you could interview me? For the blog, I mean.

What ensued were a series of long text messages back and forth. At one point, Walsh asked if “this was the interview” and I curtly replied, “No.” Loyal readers of this blog (particularly, one with the initials PVA) know that I cringe at the sight of long text messages in paragraph form with multiple, numbered or bulleted points. Sheesh. Send it to me in an email, will ya? So yeah, Walsh, no interview via text. But it got me thinking, hey, maybe this will be a great impetus to re-launch the Pandemic Papers series and carry it into 2021. Because, after all, no matter what anybody thinks or wishes, the pandemic is indeed going to carry into the early part of 2021. Like it or not. A few things about Walsh’s initial text that I find interesting: 1. This blog was the first thing to come up on his long dormant screen. I think that’s neat. 2. “I don’t know where I even left off” kind of implies that this blog is akin to a Netflix series that needs to be read in chronological order. I guess there is a modicum of truth to that, considering when we have actual “seasons of competition,” it’s kind of neat to track the progress of individuals and teams. But there are many posts that can be considered “throwaway” material – they certainly don’t rise to the level of “episodes” of a series or even a podcast (which, as we know, I like). 3. Walsh referred to “what the rules are” … which, again, made me pause and chuckle. There are no rules! Other than common sense and decency, and even that is fluid in this space. This is not an “official publication” of Marist College or anything else. No revenue is generated. Some posts get precious few views, others get hundreds. There’s a randomness to it that we kind of like. I do it to do it, and that’s it.

It’s an oversimplification to say that Walsh and I have had a complicated relationship through the years. Right from the start, when I inadvertently stiffed the then-Wantagh High School senior and his parents on their planned recruiting appointment with me at the McCann Center (I’m not proud to admit that has happened in subsequent occasions, too, with other recruits, but far less frequently now), the coach-athlete dynamic was a tortured tug-of-war for the next several years. As with everyone who has come through this program, I cared about Walsh and I still care about him. Our long texts back and forth earlier this month revealed to me that this interview might form a bit of a catharsis for him, and I’m happy to oblige. And yes, it spurred me to send out several more interview questions to more alums, so the Pandemic Papers series will indeed relaunch with this interview and go from there.

I referred to Walsh’s athletic career at Marist as a “long, strange trip,” a nod to the famous line from the Grateful Dead song Truckin’ … and it certainly was and is. If we search deep into our souls, though, all of us could probably view our life journey a long, strange trip. One interesting note about Walsh’s running career – a point of pride, actually – is how well his running career blossomed post-collegiately. In fact, ALL his best running happened after college, or most certainly, after Marist College. All the photos that accompany this post are from his post-collegiate races, which sadly are now concluded due to a career-ending leg condition that you’ll read about shortly. All the details from the photos are at the bottom of this interview. I remain clunky at blog layout, so the idea of “captions” scares me.

Hey Walsh. I’m glad you reached out, kid. Let’s try not to let years lapse between communication, OK? With me, and with your fellow Forever Foxes. They’ll be glad to read this and my guess is that they would probably welcome a random text from you as well. Trust the old man over here. Reach out to them. And thanks for spurring me out of my torpor to get this interview series going again. Some good ones in the hopper. For now, we’ll start with the long, strange story of Matthew Colin Walsh, Class of 2007.

Why did you ask me to be interviewed for the blog?

I asked to be interviewed for the blog because since 2016 I've retreated within myself after several major personal setbacks and a huge personal loss. Depression and anxiety led to me cutting off ties with most of my social contacts, leaving social media entirely, and trying to figure out my life. There's a book I've never read but whose title has stuck with me, “I've Been Down So Long It's Beginning to Look Up to Me,’’ and that feels like an apt caption for my life from January 2017 until fairly recently. I used to be very social, and I was proud to have been part of the Marist Running family far longer than my own tenure. I knew and was friendly with a good number of runners from the classes of 2004 up until around a few years after Quimes (DelaCruz) graduated (in 2013). So, because I didn't want to stay cut off from everything I once held so dear, I thought reaching out to you and putting myself out there publicly would be good for me.

How, when and why did you start running?

I started running in 7th grade which led to me running cross in 8th grade. Why? I couldn't tell you. My brother swam, so I wanted to join the swim team, so running would have been helpful to take the test to swim varsity as a middle schooler. In hindsight, had a coach that knew anything about running been around our middle school there is a chance I would have been introduced to Bill Hedgecock sooner, but since there was not I would not run cross again until my junior year.

You ran at Wantagh High School, which has a long and proud history of XC success. What are some of your best and fondest memories of that time?

I have fond memories of running in high school. I ran track as a freshman and sophomore, and broke 4:50 in the mile at the end of my sophomore year. This was when Bill Hedgecock insisted that I join his cross country team. Junior year I was 3rd man on an OK cross team, but I became very close with Sean Prinz. Sean, myself, Chris Anson and Mike Lamb would wind up winning bronze in the 4x800 that year at states. After that, I started to take running very seriously. I went to camp, I focused on my workouts and Sean taught me how to use a log book. I wound up going to states as an individual my senior year, finishing 2nd in my county class.

But all of that pales in comparison to what really humbled me and filled me with pride, and that is when I returned to coach at Wantagh in 2008 and was recognized and admired by the kids on the team. These were the kids that came up under the freshmen when I was a senior there. I felt like I was part of a culture shift where Wantagh went from having one good lead runner every year or so to being overall state contenders by the time I returned to coach. That is what I think about more than any races or medals. 

What running (and life) lessons did you learn during your time running at Wantagh?

During my time as a runner at Wantagh, I don't know if I learned anything that any other aspiring collegiate runner would learn. I don't think I was mature enough back then to learn any life lessons either. But I did develop what you might call a "complex" with my coaches, and this carried over to you. I could never really relate to Mr. Hedgecock or you in any meaningful way, and this was discouraging. When I returned to coach high school runners, I leaned that trying to get through to teenagers is insanely difficult sometimes. I had the good fortune to actually coach alongside Bill Hedgecock, and develop a truly great friendship, which led me to look back at my time under his tutelage. What did I learn? Most of my issues with my coaches stemmed from my attitude, and in hindsight this was my fault. When I realized this was right about the time you and I mended our once severely damaged relationship. The shoe being on the other foot is one way to put it. Another, I grew up a little.

When and how did you hear about Marist and what led you to attending Marist College?

My choice of Marist was simple. Sean Prinz went there. He liked it and I wanted to run with him again. Despite you standing my family and I up on my first visit, I still was sold on Marist. I also hated the college application process. I think I only applied to Marist, Binghamton and Albany and the latter two were the same application. Marist was also the only college I visited.

Your time at Marist might accurately be described as a “long, strange trip.” Would you agree or disagree with this? Try to summarize and encapsulate your time at Marist athletically (and in other areas) for us here and now?

My time at Marist was a long, strange trip. Looking back, there's no way that it would be anything but. It should be pointed out that the summer after my junior year my kidneys failed entirely, I was hospitalized for weeks, put on dialysis and lost 25 pounds. This was always going to happen. In hindsight, the symptoms were there going back to early high school that something wasn't quite right, but I appeared to be a healthy young man.

The kidneys are a very important part of training. I know there are plenty of former teammates now doctors who could explain this better, but with my kidney function being what it was my body wasn't processing its natural creatine. Meaning no matter how hard I worked, I would never improve. I also got injured and sick quite a bit more than I had been in college. My running shoes were also improperly fit (I could write an essay on that), which didn't help my stride. On top of that, with my blood slowly being poisoned over the first three years at Marist, my hormones were never regulated properly. This affected my relationships with my teammates, discouraged me as I never raced well, and when all combined negatively impacted my relationship with you. 

I did have two races I am still proud of: my sophomore year at VCP where I earned varsity for IC4As so I could run with Steve Hicks one more time, and St. John’s later that same year where I outkicked Quinn and Hopkins. I was actually a pretty good runner, but never as good as I knew I could become

After my summer in the hospital, I was welcomed back to the team but I couldn't run without literally peeing blood, so I made the decision to leave to team. I don't remember this being a difficult discussion for either of us, nor a long one. Within a week, Larry Van Wagner allowed me to walk on to the swim team and this was an entirely different experience for me. I'm not sure if he even knew I had kidney problems just weeks prior, because he never really talked to me. He never really talked to anyone, which works because you're either underwater or too tired to talk anyway. Long story short, now that my kidneys were working, I went from 135 pounds in September to close to 170 by the end of February. My body was working, but I was on a team that I never really felt at home on. I'm very proud of my MAAC championship, and doubly so for having scored points at the meet.

As for getting an education, this aspect of my life also suffered from circumstances beyond my control. I had a great relationship with my journalism professor, G. Modele Clarke, but I was hospitalized during what is normally the summer one would intern and begin navigating their career. After swimming and putting on muscle, I seriously considered joining the Navy SEALs program and even went down to a recruiter on Route 9 to sign up. This was my big plan for after college, and this fell through once they received my medical records. So, I left Marist with a degree in Journalism and no internships into a world where newspapers were folding and the 2008 election was so full of vitriol (comparatively, it would seem like Shel Silverstien compared to today) ... and then the economy crashed.

Your post-graduate career and life has taken many twists and turns -- Flagstaff, Sneaker Factory, current situation. Talk about your path as an athlete (runner) post-graduate and your status now (injury, etc.)

I was lucky enough to get a part time job at Runner's Edge in Farmingdale, NY, which taught me enough about running shoes that I was able to fix my stride. Running with the older guys from the shop, I also learned how to run slow on training runs, something unheard of during my time at Wantagh. I began to feel like a runner again, and could do so without bleeding internally. I reached out to Jut Harris for some guidance, entered the 2008 Philadelphia Marathon just to see what I was capable of, and exceeded many people's expectations (including yours, I believe) by running a 2:55. This led to me running as a grad student at Molloy College, where I began to really become the runner I had hoped to be at Marist, and finally to running at the USATF club level the following year on the Bellmore Striders. In the fall of 2010, I had the XC season I had always knew I was capable of, running 25:54 at the Mayor's Cup, a 4:23 road mile, and 15:15ish 5k on the roads. To put that in perspective, I don't think I ever broke 28 for any 8k at Marist, nor did I ever break 16:30, even on a track.

This revival in my running, combined with my former athlete Quimes choosing Marist and probably describing a very different Matt Walsh than the one you had known, was the first step in our reconciliation. I am very happy about this, to this day.

I did all of this while working in what's called “run retail,’’ and I had hoped to work my way from there into one of the major running shoe brands on the corporate side. After a few years, I felt stagnant on Long Island and decided to move out west with Adam Vess to train at altitude in Flagstaff, Arizona. My thinking here was two-fold: 1.) I had never really committed to running, and I still felt like I was robbed of my college running development due to medical issues. I had just run a negative split 10 mile race in 52 minutes, closing my last 8k faster than any race I had run at Marist, and I did that with little training beforehand. If I could string together 10 5:20 miles, perhaps with altitude and great training partners the Olympic Trial standard of 2:15 or 2:18 wasn't that unthinkable, and 2.) If that didn't work out, then meeting the luminaries of the sport may help me with my aspiration to work my way into the corporate side of the running shoe business.

Things never really clicked for me in Flagstaff, running wise, and a big part of that was I no longer had the support system that I had taken for granted on Long Island. I had been part of a community, a big part, and that helped my running just as much as the actual training did. I did get to live with, train with, and spend time with Olympic level athletes. I had Bernard Lagat over my apartment for dinner, I went quail hunting with Ryan Hall, etc. To be able to train effectively in a new place, I needed more stability ...and stability I did not have. I do not regret the time I spent there, and was lucky enough to be featured in Runner's World because of it. (https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20786680/they-might-be-ryans-talented-young-runners-look-to-prove-themselves/)

From there, I accepted an offer to move to New Jersey to manage the Basking Ridge location of the Sneaker Factory Running Center, a New Jersey staple for running shoes since 1978. I was promoted to purchasing manager, and lived with the guys from the NJ/NY track club. For years I was surrounded by the best runners in the country, and I learned a lot from them as well. They were my close friends and co-workers. Leading up to the 2016 Olympics, they moved operations from Clinton, NJ to Rye, NY, so I was now running the store without as much help and I did not get along well with the owner. After three years, I left the running business in January of 2017.

At almost this exact point in time, my left leg basically stopped working. My quad muscles are almost always numb to the touch. It's a nerve issue called meralgia paresthetica. So, I lost my job and what I identified as in the matter of a month or so, compounded by an illness in the family. This wasn't easy to cope with, and it's something I still struggle with.

Tell us what you are doing now -- and how this unintended path has led you to (I think?) better personal fulfillment?

I tried for a while to find hobbies to fill this gap, and got into making stuff. First, I replaced the brakes on my car, then I built a coffee table (which I still use), and found that I really enjoy fixing things. I had worked as a handyman to get by in Flagstaff, and I enjoyed it, so I applied for a similar job in New Jersey. I make maybe half of what I had been making before, but I come home much happier and fulfilled. It's sort of like “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance,’’ except I do plumbing, electric, carpentry, HVAC, and anything else that needs doing. Eventually I would like to have this lead into something a bit more lucrative or at least financially secure, but working with my hands allows me to use the puzzle solving part of my brain and I enjoy that it's physical work, too. I test very well, both on the SATs and the LSATs, but I'm not a very good student. I have trouble staying still. My adventures over the past years helped show me that.

What lessons can you say you learned from your time at Marist and what wisdom or messages could you impart on our current (or future) athletes to our program?

When the kids I used to coach graduated and went to college, I would tell them that the one thing they can do to really help their running is to effectively run hungover. That sounds ridiculous, but there were many times I was visiting Marist during my Molloy tenure when I would wake up and run Tower by myself. Sure, as a coach, you'd prefer teetotalers and a dry season staying dry, but that is practical advice that has helped me. You learn to push yourself through different sorts of pain, you reinforce your commitment to the sport, and if you run long enough you should feel better by the end of the run. 

As for anyone trying to pursue running post-collegiate, my advice would be to try and find a community. Not just a team, but a community of runners which includes people faster than you and slower than you. You always want someone faster than you to train with, and you always want someone slower than you to recover with. Recovery is just as important as the workout ... if you don't recover, you are not allowing your body to really get the most from that workout.

Also, become a student of the sport. Kenny Moore wrote a fantastic book called "Best Efforts," and if you really want some interesting stories I would check it out. 

And finally, listen to your coach. Sure, other programs might be successful doing different things, but they might not fit into your program. I get it - the temptation is great. But, the worst thing you can do is to try and piecemeal onto your coaches plans. They're the coach and they are there to help you. If the program isn't working for you, either have a discussion or change programs if you have to. Us Wantagh kids used to have a reputation for being argumentative and stubborn. I'd like to make it clear that I've learned better.

Anything else you’d like to add …

A point that I wanted to convey in my answers to you was that, through our relationship and your strong support of the alumni team, I was able to find success and rediscover my passion after graduation. I know my path hasn't been traditional, but I'm thankful for it. I've been part of many teams: Wantagh, Marist, Molloy, Bellmore Striders, Runner's Edge, Hedge's Harriers, Run Flagstaff...and while you personally may not have coached me to some of my best times, but you were an important part and almost always one of the first I would share a great race result with. In fact, you're the only coach I am still in touch with.

Photo caption information:

--The one with the blue singlet was my last competitive race, at the 2015 Hoka Long Island Mile. I ran in the same heat as Tim Keegan, with no training. Some spike nerd trivia, those are indeed original Michael Johnsons circa 1998 on my feet. I didn't break 5, but I closed my last 800 in under 2:30.

--The one with the long hair was a 4k cross race that I ran during my peak PR year of 2010. That was around a 15:20 pace on a hilly course, running pole to pole by myself. I went out in 4:47 for the first mile. 

--The one in the Runner's Edge singlet was from the Bayport-Bluepoint Run to the Brewery where I finished 2nd to Conor (Shelley). I felt so incredibly effortless in the second half of that race, and to do so in a race that I hadn't planned on racing and went out in somewhere close to 28 minutes for the first half, made me think that if I really, really trained hard and focused on longer distances, I could be something of a Dick Beardsley. Not as fast. But the same blue collar, out of nowhere ethos. I believe I was in Flagstaff 6 or 8 months later.

--The final picture is from a road 5k in 2010, where I came in 2nd to Chris Mammone, an Iona graduate and one of the best training partners I've had the pleasure to share morning runs and workouts with. I finished in a PR of 15:33 on a hilly course, faster than my track PR of 15:48.

Anyway, thank you for letting me do this. It was nice to reconnect to my own memories.